No I am not very rich, but definately am not poor. This is not about how much money I have, please dont keep making this about me. But at the same time I could say are you defending poverty because you are poor? This is not about being rich or poor I'm sure, but about philosophy. Ancient Indian philosophies and sciences have some lovely thoughts on this. They do not denounce money at all. Infact they praise it, while at the same time stress on fair means of earning it. Their is no glory in being poor. Sorry for the swearing: guess I got pissed off. I dont like generelisations, they tend to oversimplify matters. About taking it personally you started it by stating what would happen if you took away all my money and my life as I know it now.
--- On Thu, 28/8/08, Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
From: Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY?
To: mylifeismine@yahoogroups.com.au
Date: Thursday, 28 August, 2008, 9:25 AM
What is your reality? why have you thought to convey to me that there is rich people that are good. Because you are rich? you defend it so well. Good on you for doing that. Because if that is what important to you then that is YOUR REALITY. Not mine. I would have enjoyed your arguments better without the arrogant and implied swearing. You seem to have taken it personally and once again that is YOUR REALITY. Thank you and all, who had some philosophy on the subject and thanks to PERRY. But can we have philosophy without reality?
----- Original Message ---- From: sangita borgave <sangita142002@ yahoo.co. in> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Wednesday, 27 August, 2008 7:53:06 PM Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? | Well Dean, Once again I'm going to say, not all rich people are arrogant. The uneducated, filthy drunken lout on the road is often more arrogant in his total lack of knowledge and education - a situation which may or may not be his fault. I have met the sweetest and humblest rich people who are rich, well because they are rich. Some have taken over family businesses which just thrive over time and I have seen them work bloody hard at it. Dont get me wrong there's a lot of corrupt people out there. For instance politicians who fill their pockets by scamming people. I'm not making a case for those. I think we should be more specific when we do these discussions. What you see as arrogance may just be the self assuredness of wealth. They also may not necessarily be unaware or ignorant as you put it to what is happening around them. They do a fair bit of philanthropy and charity - they are in a position to do so. However you cannot just live your life moaning at the chaos around you. You have to get on with your own life. My father ran away from home to educate himself and worked hard all his life which in turn ensured that I am living a comfortable life today. As to the question of you taking away my source of income, it does'nt arise because I've f******ing worked my ass off to earn it. Granted I did'nt have to work as hard as my father but I've worked all the same. My family is mine, my friends are mine only god can take them away if he so wishes. And dont talk about my chirpiness because you dont know shit about what I have been through. Instead of cursing money and rich people we need to build a society that makes sure that people have a roof over their head, enough to eat and access to good medical care. But if someone is creative and strikes it rich through his talent we cannot grudge him his good fortune. A lot of people have earned their fortunes by sheer business accumen and by being in the right place at the right time. And by knowing how to make money. Young people need to get involved in the politics of their countries and need to take a stand against corruption. Old people need to be taken care off. Teachers, policemen, garbage cleaners, bus drivers - people who form the infra-structure of our society need to be paid well. More and more young people from my country are waking up to their country's needs. I feel a lot of governments are corrupt. There are some states in my country where corruption is so rampant you woul'nt dream of going there. This does'nt have anything to do with money but some really corrupt politicians. I think the situations are quite complex and need a lot of tenacity and committment to overcome.
--- On Wed, 27/8/08, Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au> wrote:
From: Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au>
Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY?
To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au
Date: Wednesday, 27 August, 2008, 9:28 AM
Sangita, My life is meaningful, however you seem to have taken this me stereotyping. I was trying to argue that the rich are arrogant and that they think they have it all, philosophically speaking. Which is what this medium is all about is it not? I don't hate anyone except those with ignorance to what is happening around us every minute of everyday. There is a philosophical politeness in society that exist in you and others, seem to think everything is ok it's the individual and the perception of that individual. Well if i took your source of income and everything you have including your family and friends. I would like to see how philosophical you will be then and see if that chirpy nature you seem to exhibit freely without consideration to the recipient. This may sound extreme to you but that what happens to a lot of people everyday. Houses are re-possesed wages are not enough to cover even with two working. The mighty dollar rules supreme...to protect the rich. Sure tell me you know of rich people who seem to be good people. That's not the arguement. The argument is that what are they doing to make the interest rates drop to develop a fair system of tax and benefits how are they making others better off. There is a lot of unessecery suffering due to money. If the rich did not benefit from all the tax havens and offshore accounts ect and was bound by the country which housed them it maybe a different story then we can talk about that.
----- Original Message ---- From: sangita borgave <sangita142002@ yahoo.co. in> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Tuesday, 26 August, 2008 3:58:06 PM Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? | Is'nt this a typical example of stereotype thinking. That a rich person's philosophy is based on success and money whereas a poor person's is based on experiences. I for one have met many rich people who are good and pure hearted and have lived very fulfilling lives. At the same tiem I have met soem real creepy poor people who have wasted and drunk away their lives. (Vice versa is also true I have to admit). Point being why hate all rich people. They have the money fine. Leave it .Concentrate on making your life meaningful. Regards Sangita
--- On Tue, 26/8/08, Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au> wrote:
From: Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au>
Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY?
To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au
Date: Tuesday, 26 August, 2008, 7:43 AM
Gail, the smile on my face lets me know that someone heard what i had to say. The truth, if there is truth and not just a series of interpretations of some basis that was convened by aristocrats to protect the mighty dollar. I see the economic society that has no way of changing. It's a sad time in history when an invention rules the hearts of us humans and our philosophy. Ask a rich man his philosophy I'm sure it's based on his success ask a poor man and it will be true philosophy to his measure of his experiences. I would love to see more philosophy come from poverty and less domination come from aristocrates. It's like ancient Greece and the drama of the old world. Jesus did not create peace on earth. Who would want to? when your destiny is predetermine to a fate just as bad. It seems inevitable we are so destructive and self centred. I know this cause I'm human. True beauty should not be what we have in our lives and how beautifully our homes have become, but a measure of what we could give back to this planet and the other inhabitants like the animals. To say that this society is economically disabled it's self and tricked into a cycle of repeating and destruction of natural resources is as ridiculous as using this computer to convey what i like to say about my arrogant philosophy. My name is Dean.
----- Original Message ---- From: Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Wednesday, 13 August, 2008 5:55:46 PM Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? Gail, your reply put a smile on my face for short period. I say this because, i believe that observation is a great tool for philosophy. I say this because if for a moment we stoped to think about what we do everyday in what we call the best of western civilisation. Meaning the system. You see you don't really need science to prove everything in this content is a contection of each. Somehow everything i see is for the purposes of developing something or someone into the "system". I don't try to profess anything, but i do declare that more can be done about the direction of this system or it's true purpose. Is this the only thing life has to offer, i would like to think we as humans. We could recreate a system that doesn't distroy it self. It all seems a bit of a waist if this is it. IS This is the best we could do for life as we know it. i hope not, we are so concerned about the bottom dollar or at the end of the day this is equal to this. What does it achieve, so many suffer and a victim of this system. I know cause i'm one.
----- Original Message ---- From: Gail <positiveeq@yahoo. com.au> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Friday, 8 August, 2008 10:10:25 PM Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? Hi Dean, Yes you raise a valid point: Maslows' hierarchy of needs: there is a point where some lie above or below the 'basic necessities' have very little choice. However, in recognising this, perhaps you have heard of 'Mans Search for Meaning' by Viktor Frankl. This may give you a lot of food for thought - how the mind & will to live can endure despite the most deplorable conditions - and yes, he used his mind consciously/ applied his mind to his circumstances. With all our intelligence & prowess, we still have only the slightest inkling of the vast power and possiblity that exists. In fact, it seems to me the more we chase it (i.e. the concept of existance/reality) , the further it slips from our grasp. Paradoxically it is in those moments when we let go, and merge with whatever 'it' is, that we come closer to the truth: of what is, our potential and purpose as agents of the powerful universal system itself. Perhaps we are deluded in thinking/assuming that we act alone, for every thing is interconnected (scientific laws?), therefore can we attempt to perceive an individual reality, or is there only one, and we represent an insignificant particle thereof? Take ego out of the equation, and what remains? Happy thinking, Gail
----- Original Message ---- From: Dean Nicholas <dynikolas@yahoo. com.au> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Tuesday, 5 August, 2008 1:19:05 PM Subject: Re: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? I don't agree that we create our own reality. I think reality is something forced on to us by a predetermined history, economy etc. You asked us to imagine a beating heart. Now imagine, you were born with nothing of the comforts of what you have now. Even food, truly can that being create a different reality? I think not. There are many people who suffer because of philosophical elitism. For example the Africa problem. It is their problem after all. Not a global problem. It's an African political problem is it not? For each of us to create our own "world" and how we perceived it, i think would be to identify a delusion of something not real. I do agree that it is to the individual to create their own state of mind an attitude. However, family, culture and environmental factors in how that individual responses are a tautology, a monkey see monkey do scenario. Each one of us beings is not an "Island" we rely on each other in some form of recognition and approval. Therefore creating ones own reality is a cooperative method. But this leaves me saying, we are born naked and from our mothers we come, we journey and suffer through out life, we die clothed and alone.What we do in between time is entertain our intellects and dance around the truth. Money truly is the root of all evil necessity i think. If you don't agree you can post it all to me, i'm sure you wont mind.
----- Original Message ---- From: chris cleary <clearyadam@hotmail. com> To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au Sent: Monday, 4 August, 2008 3:12:49 AM Subject: RE: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? Very well said perry i like it
To: mylifeismine@ yahoogroups. com.au From: perryenriquez@ yahoo.com Date: Sun, 3 Aug 2008 09:31:45 +0000 Subject: [mylifeismine] What is REALITY? REALITY is how YOU "define" it. Hard to believe? Imagine being born
without your FIVE (5) senses; that is, you have no sight, no smell,
no hearing, no touch and no kinesthesis. All you have is a beating
heart, breathing lungs, and a conscious brain. Now HOW would YOU define
"reality"? Isn't this a reality that is UNIQUE to you, and only YOU?
Conclusion: We each create our own "reality". Our individual
mental, emotional and physical "states" determine how we piece together
and create a "world" that, in return, we "perceive". How each of us
view this life, experience it and live it is, essentially, our
own "creation".
Perry
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